I have been pretty much off grid doing the holiday (vacation) thingy. But I am beyond angry so I need to blog about it – if you don’t like bad language – back button now!
A few days ago Grizz made an interesting post about how he became one of the good guys in the Make Money Online niche – and why he walked away from it. Go ahead and have a read – a genuine apology – even though many of us considered it completely unnecessary – after all I’ve never paid Griz a cent and he’s partly responsible for the decent online income that I make these days.
To be honest his original post freaked me out a bit – maybe I was delusional that my little mini-sites with lots of links would make me money. But Google keeps sending money to my account – the evidence told me that his original methods work just fine – for me anyway. Griz’s business has changed – he appears to have found a way to combine golf with making loads of cash – good on him – but no amount of money is worth learning golf as far as I am concerned.
He wants to change the direction of his business and has decided to share that info with the rest of us. For free as usual – as I said Griz owes no one an apology.
But I am not angry with Griz.
What has been out of the pub in Ireland and online is the comments on his post – specifically several comments from Ken Evoy. For those who haven’t been around for a couple of years – you may may not know who the hell Evoy is – he’s the owner of Site Build It!
For the back story – Griz summarises it quite nicely here: Site Build It Review.
I wrote a post a review of Site Build It – it wasn’t a good post (I’ve tidied it up a bit over the years) – it wasn’t well researched – hell it wasn’t spell checked. I would have been turned down by 1/2 of the owners of Postrunner sites!
That post ranks #1 for “site build it scam” to this day.
It ranks because of the backlinks to it – the back links orchestrated by Vic and Grizz. The entire exercise taught not just me, but many others the strength of relevant backlinks to promote content on the web.
Evoy’s initial comment was congratulating Griz for turning to the “content is King” side – whatever you want to believe, but everyone should note carefully what Griz does and read very carefully between the lines. (Note I have my own views but the Guinness is calling so that will have to wait).
I’m not furious at that comment.
What I am furious is his his next comments (well more like essays really)- which rapidly turns into a defense of SBI’s outrageous pricing structure ($300 per a Website/year).
The justification for the pricing is – (much paraphrased) – this is how Site Sell makes it money. My business model requires it. Yeah make your own choices about supporting Evoy’s lifestyle. (Oh and yes they do fire people who don’t get on in the group hug of the forums – as mentioned by Evoy).
I could debate this again – but frankly if you aren’t prepared to learn how to install WordPress on a hosting account – then you really should probably look for a different scheme to make money online.
Its not just that this is the same old, repetition of the SBI! marketing ptich – its the fact that all of this is happening on Griz’s apology post! That’s why I am not debating this on Griz’s post – its not appropriate. So Ken Evoy – here are some simple blogging etiquette hints – you may want to incorporate them into your training manuals – I am sure you can expand these into at least 2000 words of content.
- commenting with and disagreeing with the post is fine – so long as its not abusive;
- taking the comments totally off topic and promoting your own financial interests is not. Yes I know you didn’t start it but you sure has hell escalated it;
- shorter is better – writing essays on other people’s blogs is the equivalent of being the grandstander at the wedding reception who won’t shut up after a 30 minute speech when 10 minutes would have been more than enough.
Enough said I think – I’ve seen outrageous comments before – but Ken you beat the lot of them – and you claim to teach people to build a business – that’s just tragegic!
If you found this post because you were googling “sit build it review” – then please consider what Ken’s own online behavior tells you about him and his company ..
Bugger – didn’t work still angry – more Guinness is the only answer . Find my original Site Build It Review here
43 replies on “Site Build It Review – Griz and Ken Evoy Best Friends?”
Nicely said Lis. He seems to think that Griz’s apology (of sorts … read between the lines) was to him personally. Plus, Ken seems to think that because Griz is going in a slightly different direction, that it makes his SBI stuff somehow more acceptable.
Message to Ken: Griz is NOT sucking the life and money out of Noobs. You are. You can probably write some long essay to justify your actions – but it will never change what you are: a noob milker.
What an idiot.. I read that and commented, saying pretty much what you are… wow…. crazy shit, the irony! :rollsseyes:
I managed more words though Rob! And I used the spell check! Guiness photos will have to wait a couple of days though – too much booze to do techie shite !
Spell check? What is that? 😛
Lis clearly needs to upgrade her spell checker. She keeps missing the h in Shite Build It.
🙂 I couldn’t even read his comment (way to much) I just moved on with my day. I hope you are having a blast on your trip!
The trip is way cool TRJ – snow at Christmas – v.cool for us people from Down Under!
Way to go Lis. I figured you would throw up a post. I can not believe Ken would even try to make himself look like a victim after he sent all the trolls over to your site on the initial post. the review was your “OPINION of SBI” ya know.. just like I would give an opinion of why you should buy one vehicle over another.. Ya don’t have to buy a vehicle to have an opinion about it.
@Dennis too much Koolaid as they say!
I tried reading his comments on Griz’s blog earlier but they were so long I got about halfway through and said screw it.
Yeah I rather suspect he might actually type them out new each time too – having them all setup as boiler plate would be too tacky for him!
Hi Lis 🙂
Hope your vacation is going well as it can…
I’m really surprised that Griz even posted that… I can’t call it a comment because a comment is maybe 100 words max. Oh well…
I’m just glad that I’m not an a$$hole like Ken!
Looking forward to seeing you back to posting more great articles upon the conclusion of your vacation.
That Ken is still as arrogant as always. His entire line of commenting is in an effort to establish superiority. It’s very obvious by his word choices.
Oh, and I love it when someone says “I will leave this comment but won’t respond after this” and the low and behold, they come back for more and talky talky talky.
PS– when did Griz every encourage people to put up “splogs?”
Allyn – Askimet had you! Yeah I think its his – “just listen to daddy O and you will be OK” tone which just pisses me off! Yeah I wasn’t going anywhere with the splog comment – he really doesn’t get it at all
With all the scammer’s out there how can anyone be sure that it is really Ken Evoy?
No scammer could fake the writing style – also Griz will have the genuine email addy – he wouldn’t allow someone to impersonate a known person
Didn’t bother with the comments on that one, but yeah, writing pages on someone’s blog for exploiting others is very bad form. Hope the travels are going great, and I’m with you – my first reaction to Grizz’s post was to be confused and weirded out. His blog posts were a huge part of getting me started into the passive income streams online, and I’m still grateful for that.
Boy oh boy, when I saw that Ken had first commented on Griz’s blog like the apology was just for him, I thought here we go … LOL what a douche!
You know it’s not *nice* to pick on the mentally disabled.
RT, by that you mean the SBI owner or the SBI affiliates? 😉
What Lis said, and then some. Hmm, I’m prone to making long comments. Must learn not to do that. Might be mistaken for someone else.
Not a chance Dave – your comments are fun to read!
I don’t mind reading long comments anywhere IF they matter… just a pitch and crap like Ken does is just insulting. 😉
Lis, I might be blind, not enough coffee?, but I can’t find the comment(s) you are referring to on Grizz’ blog … Did he cleaned his comment section up? SY
SY, not to impersonate liz, but I can guess you missed the LINK for them under the post, rather than an automatic showing of them under it… I almost missed them, thinking eh? Then realised the link was there to read them. 🙂
Hope it helps. 😉
It does look as though the Ken Evoy comments have been removed. Ken’s and his interlocutors. Looks like Grizz did this when he did another round of responding to comments. He did a little clean up.
scratch that. I was wrong. Simply moved to the second page of comments. Boo.
I am a regular reader of your posts because I find your posts genuine and writing style very straight forward.
If I am right, then “sit build it review” should be “site build it review” in this post.
Rajesh@pc tips tricks
My website is made with SBI and personally I love it. I break more then even every year, so $300 is well spent.
There are no Get rich quick programs. Just as everything you do in life…it takes time, patience and a lot of hard work.
Each his own I think.
Shite Build It…that’s too funny! I recently had a conversation with another IMer about SBI – I commented that I wasn’t sure about it, couldn’t say if it’s a good/bad/indifferent deal – but I knew there was this mythological debate that Grizz mentioned, and haven’t been online long enough to know that it was YOU and your review!
Ha! I’ll have to read the review, now, Lis. You’re more famous (notorious?) than I thought. Keep up the good work, I have a lot of catching up to do.
I do have a question, though – since I did learn IM from some solid ebooks, before I ever heard of Grizz. Are there ebooks that you would recommend to someone just starting out?
I ask only because I get the distinct impression (from a number of folks who’ve learned from Grizz) that the ebook model is a joke/waste of time/fleecing the noobs…Personally, I’ve had two ebooks and recommend them both, affiliate with one.
When I was starting the eBook model was just on the point of “evolving” to the membership site model after all what’s better than a $99 ebook – obviously a $1995/MONTH membership site LOL. I am sure there are some decent ebooks around in fact I own a dancing one and a digital photorgraphy one that don’t suck at all. But in the MMO space – I never found anything – maybe they exist – but I never found them. I flog Janet’s ebook – but if you’ve read Grizz – then its his stuff written down (with his permission). I also flog Monica’s ebook on freelancing – if that is what you want to do (but that’s an entirely different model). The Keyword Academy now has a summary eBook of their method – but I suspect you are well beyond the basics with your current earnings report – well done!
Thanks, Lis – I’m actually more lucky with the product and niche I chose, just so happened it was a great product in an evergreen niche – I was asking because you’ve been at this for a while, have read much more than I have, and wonder what you tell newbies, or where you send them.
A number of folks are asking me (family, mostly) what I “do,” and that leads to, “teach me how,” but then it’s a barrage of links and references…this and that blog…then all I’ve done is overwhelm.
Which is the reason behind ebooks, anyway (and really wondered at what you told people when they ask?).
Thanks for the kudos and tips – so maybe I should re-phrase: if a newbie asked you today how to do what you do, silly question: what do you tell them without overwhelming?
James your friends are more enquirying than mine – I think most of mine think I run porn sites or something LOL – they don’t ask much!
This is cold but I am going to bring it up. Ken Evoy is thrilled about the anguilla beaches site, and I happened to be the person to point out in the SBI forum that in the US, you couldn’t actually do that. ANd it went over like lead bricks too. I pointed out the Real Estate Settlement Protection Act (RESPA) and that you can only advertise real estate in the US if you’re a real estate agent with a broker or a real estate broker.
So the actual big wonderful example that exists is illegal in the US and you just won’t ever be that wonderful in that way unless you are in a country that allows it.
But you would have thought the big guy of a big company would know this, that the entire country below him would not allow this practice. And it was news to him or news he acted like he didn’t know.
Oh, the Real Estate Settlement Protection Act says:
RESPA’S statutes explained: consumer protections and prohibited practices
Section 8: kickbacks, fee-splitting, unearned fees
Section 8 of RESPA prohibits anyone from giving or accepting a fee, kickback or anything of value in exchange for referrals of settlement service business involving a federally related mortgage loan. In addition, RESPA prohibits fee splitting and receiving unearned fees for services not actually performed.
Violations of Section 8’s anti-kickback, referral fees and unearned fees provisions of RESPA are subject to criminal and civil penalties. In a criminal case a person who violates Section 8 may be fined up to $10,000 and imprisoned up to one year. In a private law suit a person who violates Section 8 may be liable to the person charged for the settlement service an amount equal to three times the amount of the charge paid for the service.
So SBI are being slammed by Panda, doing terrible, the forum is polluted with stories of sites traffic being demolished, no surprise here. Ken Evoy sends his customers to the Google webmaster forum to hopefully get answers as to why some of his customer’s sites are slammed by Panda. Google moderators slam SBI sites, you can read it here: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=3460ee3d10421af3&hl=en
So then Ken goes on to rant, forget about Google, we’ll do our own report (The 252 Report) that in his own words:
————“ken-admin wrote:The goal of THIS document? To restore your traffic and make you change-proof for the next 20 years. Google will never-ever NOT want a great site that adds to the user experience. Panda has merely re-set the bar. We’ll define that bar and show you how to stay above it.” ———————
Then he goes AGAIN as usual telling SBI customers to ignore anyone speaking about Panda, God Ken Know it ALL – his manipulative way of keeping customers blind to the truth that SBI sites are not performing well, that his system is no longer relevant and it doesn’t work.
————– Quote from the Forums: “Gurus” and various other sources of info — they don’t have the data necessary to make valid conclusions. It’s just speculation (often by names who do not have the best track record historically — but folks forget, or don’t know, the history). The amount of Panda mis-information out there is staggering. I know you’re anxious to get going, but here’s one staggering stat from the data gathering…
The 252 Report will be the definitive work on Panda in general and 2.5.2 specifically. Meanwhile…
Do get started. The info in there is the basics of what you must get right.
Sorry, I don’t want to sound harsh. But sometimes a gentle boot placed in just the right spot… well, you know. ———-
WHAT ????????????? Panda proof for the next 20 years???? It’s mind boggling that these people are waiting on Pappa Ken to “Fix their sites and make them Panda Proof for the next 20 years” – I guess Ken Evoy found someone he can bully at Google to tell him the secret to being Panda Proof for 20 years.
Is this ridiculous or what? The man has lost it and anyone who listens to him is certifiably crazy as well. Groupies and cult is really an understatement. SBI and Ken Evoy are scammers, a SCAM indeed.
The forum is not success focused as they claim, it’s Ken worship focused…. nutty…. those that disagree or complain about SBI get a beating from Ken, the moderators lock the thread, delete it or get spanked, and the groupies and zombies follow to defend Pappa Ken.
check out one of the crazy comments that an SBier, this is CRAZY !!
—————-“|Doctor, scientist, inventor, entrepreneur, golf coach, software developer, and internet guru…. Like I said…Twenty-first Century Benjamin Franklin. Ken, I want to be like you when I grow up. ————–
People are reffering to him as general Ken, women saying they love him and how he is their God….. !!! Yes, seriously !! and he feeds on that and doesn’t tone it down.
Sickening to my stomach, yuk.
A monthly payment to sneak up on all this reality drama, PRICELESS !!!! I better get out before this craziness gets contagious. I swear he does Voodoo on people.
So glad I didn’t work much on my site, it’s true they make it ridiculously hard to move your work to another host, DON”T JOIN, you’ll regret it.
So here is one more outrageous comment to prove that the cult mentality that Ken Evoy created in SBI. You can’t get info on that place without running into a crazy statement.
———–“As a Doctor you patch things up after they are broke. Your old profession.
As a General you lead the troops and form battle plans and go over intelligence. Your new profession.
That is why I think of you more as a General then a Doctor.
Thanks so Much!” ———
First I want to say I admire Liz for standing up against bullies like Ken Evoy. Thanks Liz for your blog and for giving the opportunity for people to express the real concerns that Ken Evoy did not allow us to express at the forums.
Finally decided to leave SBI, I was one of those that didn’t get “Why” people called SBI a scam or Ken Evoy a cult Leader, I get it now. Things have gotten really bad at SBi and finally Ken Evoy exploded with another one of his self-righteous rants, but the last one really did it for me.
Some real issues with SBI were being brought up, finally people were tired of hearing the usual ra, ra about how wonderful SBI is and how they worship Ken and they were getting down to business and discussing ALL the problems that SBI has, how OUTDATED their information IS, and how the reason why Panda hit so many sites IS Because of all the problems that SBI has created with their system, now all customers that follow the AG are paying the consequences. Some shady practices were taking place and they were called on it.
It was only a matter of time before Ken Evoy came in to slam those that DARED to complain, disagree, or criticize his system. He went on an emotional, unprofessional, irrational, and downright bullying tirade against those that are NON-COMPLIANT. Basically anyone that dares to disagree now or share information or advise that is not in the Action Guide will be disciplined publicly and humiliated.
Not only is Site Build It (SBI) a scam, the man behind it Ken Evoy is also a scam, today’s Nazi leader on the net, and anyone who wishes to follow him, fail and pay him to do it is welcome to join SBI.
Me (My own person, free to think and speak and make my own decisions)
Good work Liz, i think you are right about SBI.
I have not been in here in a while but I must alert your readers on the latest up at SiteSell. You would never know it from their Facebook page, all critics and complaints are deleted, that page is guarded with Army personnel
So BB2 has rolled out…after about 2 years of delays, supposedly the “Best of Breed Builder”, better than Word Press, better than sliced bread.
So as soon as it was released, even those NOT using the new builder, even those uploading their own HTML to builder were affected BADLY, people are losing pages, blogs, XML sitemaps, images, homepages, system is spamming RSS subcribers, you name it it’s happening. People hit a button on their websites and it breaks.
Ken Evoy’s response; it took three days for him to even respond on the forums and make a statement, and as usual, dismissive or any concerns.
This post at the forums truly describes the disgust and anger that most feel but of course would not DARE to say at the forums. For the first time EVER, people are speaking up and hopefully leaving to a real hosting company.
“The post just before this saying that “Things could be worse, your whole site could be down” Is a perfect example of the moronic, idiotic, fanatical, cult-like, rah-rah, this is really peeving me off and making me seriously reexamine this whole venture. I AM THE CUSTOMER HERE! I am paying for three sites and getting form letter responses. THAT IS NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE! There are real people who are in the worst kind of stress and anxiety, not to mention loosing money in the process! Then some (insert your favorite word) wants to post “Thanks For The Update” and “Great Work Ken!” in every forum under the sun. You blatant suck ups just sicken me! Funny though, the billing department does not seem to be experiencing any glitches! Any other vendor would be making refunds at his point, but not SBI! oh no, you get too much value already! Meanwhile, put on your party hat and get over to Book Face, genuflect, and help convince others to sign up now! Well I “unliked” that too!”
hope you enjoyed that quote. I sure did and hundreds of others as well.
Looks like Ken Evoy’s days with SiteSell are counted.
First, I’d like to say thanks for still allowing comments about sbi to continue. I know you have been so over this for so long but, because of your ranking any potential SBI customers have a good chance of finding these comments and there needs to be some truth about the current state of SBI.
The previous poster pretty much stated what’s been happening since the much delayed first launch of the BB2 sitebuilder. And that’s all it is, is a sitebuilder.
This launch also gave less than 1000 sbiers access to the new BB2 site builder. What happened was an epic failure. Anyone who went in and built a page seemed to start a domino effect of broken functions within their sites. Everything the previous poster stated was happening to practically everyone who logged in and touched their site that morning. Within a few hours the extent of the failures was obvious.
People went from frustration to panic as Ken really is the only way that important information is disseminated at SBI and he went silent.
Now…keep in mind, for the past year Ken has been posting constantly about issues with Google, and causes that he feels warrant work stoppage for Tweeting, and Liking and posting to get the word out about whatever happens to piss him off that day…usually Google. Or whatever he wanted marketed that day. And as we all know, Ken is reputed for posted thousands of words at a time, so to expect him to make a post to reassure SBIers about what was going on with this epic failure was a no-brainer.
However, he stayed silent for 2, not quite 3 days. But yet, he was seen on the SiteSell Facebook page marketing as usual. You can only believe that the messages on SiteSell Facebook looking for some answers regarding the crashing of so many systems within SBI were being deleted. There were no answers coming in the forums.
When Ken finally did post it was in the “business as usual” promo style as if absolutely nothing was wrong. When Sbiers voiced their displeasure with that he became agitated and his follow up posts were scolding. His brief apologies seemed insincere and were very long overdue…blanketed in a tone of contempt, like a parent losing patience with irritable children…..they were basically useless.
It all went downhill from there and shortly after the post that the previous poster here quoted showed up in the forums Ken posted again. He reminded everyone that he doesn’t need the money. He runs SBI because he cares about his customers and then he warned everyone that he’d decided to “fire” certain sbiers that he felt were complaining too much.
During all of this distracting drama the days tick by and systems and functions remain broken and SBiers start paying by way of lost traffic and income. A list of “bugs” was created and fixes announced except….it seems most fixes were claimed fixed prematurely.
Any potential customers need to understand SBI is a membership. When you build a site with SBI, Ken Evoy feels entitled to that site. He has been known to reveal things about individual stats and site traffic in the forums without the consent of the site owner. He becomes extremely aggressive with those who do not want to be part of his marketing in the case studies, and he does not inform his affiliates when sites are no longer case studies.
He does feel he can “fire” customers at will. Which means, he will take down the business you worked long and hard to build if you speak up too many times. Potential SBiers also need to understand that at SBI Ken Evoy makes all the rules and he makes every decision and he uses that power to manipulate the group.
The SBI forums have been over run with fanatical, irrational fans of Ken Evoy and he embraces their bullying tactics and allows anything that’s pro SBI. They post anything that they think will make other, less devoted customers conform. The Cult references are not exaggerations.
Lies are common. For example: For quite a long time Ken has claimed 40K sites at SBI.
According to domain tools daily changes website the number is around 36K as of this post. And that’s registered domains which includes all the parked domains as well. That’s down about 1000 domains since the beginning of 2012. The number of live hosted sites can only be even less. It seems that the perception that the company is growing is an illusion.
They also use employees in the forums and on Facebook to pose as satisfied customers who can’t say enough good things about SBI.
Anyone considering SBI should be aware that there are still a lot of broken things because of this update and the update is far from over. Everyone should also be aware that there is currently a movement of long time SBI site owners leaving SBI. Those who have sites outside of that choking proprietary system and know how to use WordPress in spite of Kens dire warnings against it, are helping those that now want to move their sites out.
As a product SBI is outdated and extremely overpriced at $300 per year/per domain. Google Panda has made most of the Action Guide obsolete, and Ken Evoy has intimidated, bullied, and alienated quite a few of his most valuable customers away.
This is the stuff happening right now that you won’t read about in all those many positive affiliate reviews about SBI that pollute the net.
Holy Hell guys – I actually hadn’t know the bit about Evoy “outing” stats of member’s sites without their knowledge – that’s a huge breach of trust.
Sounds like that Ken needs much better testing and control around his software – to release something so broken is very amateurish. It also highlights the strength of open source software like WordPress and Joomla – where anyone (with the skills) can update the software, you end up with a much more stable platform.
Thanks for keeping everyone updated on what’s really going on behind the scenes.
Hi Lis, remember me???
Long back, you said I will be in trouble with negative titles, and I said I had no trouble whatsoever. You were right then, my hubpage on Steve Pavlina has been removed for misleading content or whatever. Please visit my blog if time permits and do leave a comment.